You can’t say her name without smiling
You can listen to my podcast with Joyelle here:
She came on the podcast to promote her debut stand-up comedy special, Love Joy, executive produced by Jimmy Fallon for the Peacock platform.
Johnson was back on The Tonight Show last night, in fact, to promote the special with a snippet from her performance.
Love Joy premieres Nov. 5, 2021, on Peacock.
Here is an edited and slightly condensed transcript of my conversation with Joyelle Nicole Johnson!
Sean L. McCarthy: Last things first! Congratulations on Love Joy, your new special on Peacock, which you recorded on your birthday.
Joyelle Nicole Johnson: I did record on my birthday! On my 40th birthday.
So recording your first full-length comedy special on your birthday….where does that rank on your list of 40 other birthdays?
I mean, I’m sure it’s pretty much the best birthday. I mean, for me, especially because of the fact that I am able to say I did it. I mean, there are very few gauges of success for our career. I mean, there’s many gauges, but to say you finally taped a special, which a lot of people do not get to do. And to do it on your birthday. I mean, yeah.
OK, so then what was your best birthday before your 40th?
Ironically enough, my birthday is on September the 12th. I had a great birthday, the year of 9/11, because I was in college, and all of my friends just kind of overcompensated, so we had a really awesome party that next day, because everyone was so sad. So we were just like, let’s get together and have a party. And they had a surprise party for me at Boston College. And it was absolutely amazing. And then the other time when I jumped out of an airplane that was pretty cool.
That is cool. So it’s not just Love Joy, Joyelle Nicole Johnson on Peacock, but it’s also Jimmy Fallon Presents. How did that happen?
How did that happen? It happened the way that dreams happen. You know how you see something in a dream and then it happens? I mean, every comedian is like, the dream is to do a late-night set, and then have that person produce your special but I didn’t even think that was possible. So apparently I did well enough on my first Tonight Show set that Jimmy said her! Let’s produce her special. And I found out that he just really appreciated how kind I was. I mean, he talked to me for about five minutes before I went onstage. And his producing partner, Jim Juvonen, and told my partner that Jimmy thought I was kind and yeah, we’re both Virgos. So maybe that has something to do with it! I don’t know.
Well, Joyelle, you are kind. I can attest to that in all of my experiences with you. One of which, if not, the last time was — ironically or coincidentally enough — I remember seeing you when I recorded my podcast with Maria Bamford at the Bell house. You and Lizz Winstead were both there. All of your orbits colliding. And then Maria, is featured in the intro for your special which was filmed at the Bell House in Brooklyn.
Absolutely, yeah, I know. Right. Life comes full circle weird at you. And I will be with Maria at the Bell House, November, I think 19th and 20th. (yes, and all of those shows Nov. 19-20, 2021 at The Bell House already are sold out!) So it’s coming back around?
Well, you know, not just Maria and Jimmy. But there’s a number of famous faces and names who appear in the beginning of your special. I’m not going to name them all because I want you to tell me, which one of those people meant the most for you to be able to include?
Oh, my goodness. I mean, I goes without saying: All of them. But I think I guess my go to answer would be Gina Yashere, because she’s my big sister in comedy. She calls me her ‘lil sis,’ her ‘lil Muppet.’ I’m her bratty little sister, and she’s treated me like that for my whole entire stand-up career. I am now 15 years old. And I just looked up to her. I met her my first year in comedy in Los Angeles, and I followed her around like a little puppy because I was like, she knows what she’s doing. So if you follow her around and you learn from her, you’re gonna know what you’re doing eventually. And that’s what it was, because she was my inspiration being just an international touring black female comedian. And I looked at her and I said, OK, she can do it. And she told me if I can do it, you can do it and she’s put the most money in my pocket at the beginning of my career, I will definitely say. And I got to tour and do road work with her, so everyone means a lot to me. But Gina, especially, because I’ve known her the longest out of all of those people who did the intro.
What was the best advice she gave you when you were first starting out?
I think she would tell me that you need to go anywhere that will just kind of be a place that you can fit in. Like, if you don’t think you fit in somewhere, go somewhere else. And she was a testament to that to where she would work, you know, OK, a cruise ship, OK, a show in Ireland, that’s a TV show taping, you know, she was just the number one hustler that I ever met. So she was just kind of like, you know, you don’t necessarily have to say no to gigs. But if you’re uncomfortable with it, you can say no, and just know that something else will come
Was being a substitute teacher in South Central LA, was that a gig that she recommended to you?
That was not a gig she recommended, but she definitely told me that I need to keep working. And if I work during the day, and then do stand-up at night, something will come of it.
You tell stories/jokes about being both a substitute in LA, but then also teaching yoga at a Jewish private school in New York City, which for like 12-year-olds, like I it, it baffles my mind that there would even be 12-year-olds taking yoga classes.
Whenever I tell people about the school, they’ll act like I’m making it up, like it sounds like a pitch for a television show or a movie. And it’s like, no, this was a real place that I was able to work for a year and got to observe all of the zaniness that comes with kids that are so rich, that their gym class is a private yoga instructor. So yeah, all of that is 100% true story. The quotes from those students are true. But of course, I couldn’t say their real names because of legal and standards and practices. So that’s the only thing that’s made up in those jokes is the names that I used.
Did any of those experiences wind up in your pitches for writing with Broad City, because those girls had to hustle, and they might have ended up in some weird situations with rich Jewish kids.
It actually didn’t. And that’s funny, you say that. I did write a whole entire pilot about it. And I wrote it with one of the teachers who taught there as well. He was a writing partner with me, because of course, he was the screenwriting instructor. Because you don’t just have an English class, you have a screenwriting instructor at a school that rich, and we would just be looking around every day like, this school should be a television show. So I do have that pitch for the television show. Because it sounds like a television show.
I have spoken more than a few comedians over the years, who worked as either substitute teachers or full-time teachers. And I wonder how much of that is just because you still get to have a captive audience, so that career is kind of appealing.
I think well, especially with substitute teaching, you get to have an audience. But kids I mean, ain’t nobody meaner than children. Kids are mean! They were probably the worst audience for stand-up. But it was a good gauge of if I can entertain these kids, I can entertain anybody because ain’t nothing scarier than a roomful of 30 middle schoolers. I mean, they were the absolute worst, but the thing was in South Central, I had a room full of kids, overflowing classrooms, and had the exact opposite with the rich kids because it was all one-on-one instruction. So I think the transient nature of substitute teaching allowed itself for a stand-up comedian, because you can say yes or no any given day. And then also teaching in general, it’s a day gig, and it’s not going to go into the night. So that was the difficulty when I would waitress. It’s like the good shifts are the dinner shifts, but you can’t do dinner shifts, if you want to do stand-up because you need to be onstage. So I’d have to take all the lunch shifts and, you know, make as much money depending on what restaurant you’re in, so I can make a good amount of money even though I don’t like waking up early.
Being a young comedian, you’re probably out late nights doing open mics or grabbing stage time, wherever you can. But you’re also networking with comedians and carousing. And then you have to be up at six in the morning.
Oh my gosh, there was so many of those days where I would go straight to the school. I would go home shower, and then go to the school and then at 3 p.m., be absolutely delirious and go home and take a nap before I go back out to do stand-up. Because you know, you know, comedians, we will talk and talk and talk until 2-3-4 o’clock in the morning, on the side of the road, with not even food. It’s like, can we go get something to eat? Why are we talking as long?
But comedy was always the go to for you even coming out of Boston College, and moving to LA was that, like the goal?
I never thought I would be able to do stand-up. I never thought I would have the confidence for it. It looked like something that I would love. I mean, I watched all of George Carlin when I was a kid watching his HBO specials, and I would look at him and I’d be like, I think I can do that. I’m just scared. That’s what I would always say to myself, I think I’m I can do it. I’m just scared. As you should be scared. It’s a scary thing to do. And when I finally did it, I was like, oh, wow, that was really scary. I guess I’ll do it again. I have a weird penchant for doing things that I’m scared of, i.e., jumping out of airplanes and teaching kids in South Central Los Angeles. If I’m scared of something, I have to do it. And I guess it’s kind of like a sadomasochist thing. I don’t know. I just do things that I’m scared of.
So then when you when you come back to New York, and by the time I meet you, you’re hanging out with the other young comics outside of the Comedy Cellar, eventually making your way inside The Olive Tree. Were you scared then? Or had you acquired the confidence at that point? Because you seem pretty…
Confident? Thank you. I was faking that. So I appreciate you for telling me I fake that well, because I was just a scared little girl the whole time. I mean, I think I’ve just started to get confidence. You know, it’s like something about turning 40. You know, you turn 30. And I felt more confident turning 30. But now turning 40 I’m like, OK, first of all, none of this matters. None of it matters. We’re all just kind of in a game simulation right now. So I’m way more confident now. And I feel extra fantastic. With the 40 in front of my number. I like that F 40. Fucking 40.
Was there a moment or a gig that represented the turning point for you and your confidence?
Honestly, doing The Tonight Show, being my second late-night set, and having to be there alone. Because of COVID restrictions. I couldn’t have anybody with me. And the transition from, I did Seth Meyers, that was my first set in 2018. I was shaking, I was holding the microphone shaking. And I kept switching hands. Because I felt like it looked like this. It didn’t look crazy. But in my head. I was so scared. And then with Tonight Show, I walked out and I was just so surprised that how relaxed I was. I was like, Oh, I got this. Nobody’s here with me. That’s fine. I’ll be even more confident this time because it’s what my third time? Oh, this is old hat now and I can bring people now. Oh, please. I mean, Famous last words. But I think this year has been the turning point of my confidence. That I mean, a global pandemic.
That amazes me that you say that. And this is just based on my own perceptions, obviously. Because I remember seeing you hanging around Dave Chappelle and you were performing with him and like, if anyone’s gonna be intimidating, you would think it would be Chappelle just to be in that orbit and to be performing for his fans, and dealing with all the stuff that comes with that. And you were doing that before the shaky microphone.
Oh, absolutely. And I was intimidated. I was intimidated. I mean, it’s like going into the Comedy Cellar. I got passed in 2016. I think I just got confident, once again, like this year of walking in there and being able to be like, oh, I belong here. And I think you know, coming out of a pandemic, that we are still in, by the way.
Thank you for thank you for mentioning that. Yes, we are still in it.
We’re still in it. But that transition of having to be in the house for over a year and doing Zoom shows and not connecting with people really did change, you know, my frame of mind because I was like, oh, once again, none of this matters. And, OK, what are you scared of? There’s nothing to be scared of any more. So walk up in there and hold your head up high and put on some heels, and you’ll be alright.
So if you had a change of your frame of mind, during the pandemic, how did that change, perhaps what you wanted to talk about in Yell Joy, which is your audio comedy debut, and Love Joy, which is your video comedy debut? Was there a change in terms of like, what you wanted to how you want to express yourself or what you want him to talk about on stage?
I talked to Jackie Kashian, and she was like, Greatest Hits. That’s what the special is, your greatest hits. So it’s the culmination of 15 years of stand-up, and all of the things that I have felt confident enough to bring to the stage. And some of the bits are from the album, that are now you know, being brought to life. So you get to see me acting them out, and, you know, expressing them in an audio and visual format. So, I think that transition from audio to visual was just a combination of general confidence in my material. And knowing, hey, I must be funny if people are going dumped some money on top of my, make it rain on me. I made it rain on me, so I must be funny.
You mentioned earlier about moving toward things that scare you, such as jumping out of an airplane. I know you’ve been very active with, I mentioned Lizz Winstead’s name before, with the Lady Parts Justice League, or Abortion AF (Abortion Access Front). That’s a very different type of comedy or comedic activism. Because you’re on the frontlines of a hot button political issue, where you’re encountering people who don’t agree with you at all.
I mean, not only don’t agree but also mean me harm. They mean, people who are abortion rights activist and people who are proponents for abortion, they mean us harm. So I think that is one of the things that has really empowered me, as an artist. I wanted to be an artist who was also an activist. And that came to me, you know, it’s like, if you put your intentions into the universe, you write what you want to happen, it’s going to come to you in a weird way. And that came to me as an opportunity. When she first started the organization when it was Lady Parts Justice. One of my friends was like, hey, do you want to work with this organization? I was like, absolutely, I want to do that. I’ve had an abortion, and I had an abortion when I was in college. And I was like, if I can empower young girls or just any woman or person who has the procedure, with comedy, what? That’s a thing? And we made it a thing. We made something out of nothing. So that’s my biggest point of pride for me that I’m able to make people laugh, but also be an activist for abortion rights.
Yeah, I find, especially since not just the pandemic, but also since the Trump era, which may or may not still be a thing. So I hesitate, because this podcast will exist later. But I’ve had many discussions with comedians about well, what is the role of the comedian and what can their comedian effectively do in terms of activism? Or is the comedian just the fool? who’s shouting jokes into the wind? Do you have a different perspective on that?
I do not think the comedian is a fool. I know how powerful a comedian’s voice is. And that is why I specifically want to try my best to use my words as carefully as possible, because words are powerful. And funny words from a funny person are even more powerful. George Carlin framed my entire political mindset. He was the one telling me, you don’t really want to go to Sunday school, you don’t really want to be a part of that church. Like he’s the person who had me going against religion, challenging authority, not trusting politicians, and just understanding that if this person tells me and I trust them, because they’re funny, I can formulate different ideas. So he is the person that taught me how powerful my words are. So a comedian is a fool, but a fool can also influence people.
Was that also what held appeal for you in terms of working with Hasan Minhaj when he did Patriot Act?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when I got that opportunity, I got that phone call, I was extra excited, because I know how pure his intents are, when it comes to the topics that he covers, and from the global perspective of being an Asian minority, you know, in America, and being able to come from that perspective and be highly intelligent. And extremely, I guess anal might be the word, because that man will take a topic and break it down from every perspective that you didn’t think about. And once again, make people think and change people’s minds and also get him banned in Saudi Arabia, which was a bold move. I was very proud to have my name in the credits of that episode. That was like I might be banned in Saudi Arabia, too.
Now after the show, I read some, like wildly different extreme viewpoints of what it was actually like working on the show. Yeah. You were. You were the warm up comedian. So did you see what it was like to work on the show? Or did you just come in and do your thing?
I came in and did my thing. I mean, certain people, listen, warm ups get treated in this industry, like trash. I’ll say it. We get treated as if we are not pivotal to an experience. And Ryan Reiss, one of my super good friends, who is the warm-up comedian for so many shows. He was the one who just kind of was like, he kind of took me under his wing. But he was also like, it’s a thankless job. And it absolutely is a thankless job from show to show, you get to experience it. But we as the warm-ups know how pivotal it is. And I didn’t get to see, I wasn’t there on a daily basis. So I only had my personal experiences being the warm up. And yeah, some of them weren’t the best. Some of the things I experienced weren’t the best. And some of the showrunners might have been…
I mean, yeah, the things I heard were from people who I guess were writers or producers.
Yes. Yeah, exactly.
And it’s always hard to know from the outside, because and I’m just talking about the business aspect, because, obviously with the Me,Too movement and everything. We’ve learned a lot more about how comedians are offstage, versus how they are on stage. Yeah, I did intentionally save the the toughest question for last. So when was the last time Dave Chappelle took your advice?
HAHAHAHA. When was the last time he took my advice?!? I don’t know if he’s taking anybody’s advice. I don’t know that anyone’s giving him advice. And I don’t know that he’s taking advice. It don’t seem like anyone’s giving him any advice.
That’s, that’s why I asked it the way I did because I’m struggling as a journalist and a critic to figure out what’s going on with Dave. And I know you know him a lot better than I do. And I don’t know the last time you talked to him or interacted with him at all, but even so, you know him a lot better than I do. What’s going on in his head?
I mean, there’s just a certain level that you can get to that I have seen people get to in this journey. I’m 15 years in and some people think they’re beyond reproach. Some people think that our words aren’t powerful, and that we do not have the influence that we do. And one of the last times I spoke to him, I did tell him that I was disappointed in the way he uses his words and his power. So that’s one of the last times I spoke to him. So you can imagine how that went over. Not many people tell this Dave Chappelle to their face that he’s a disappointment, but I did. And yeah, that was the last time we spoke.
Sounds like it sounds like he hasn’t taken your advice then?
Oh, no, no, no, he’s actually, I don’t know, tripled, quadrupled and quintupled down on whatever is going on. So I wish him the best on his journey and I’m happy to not be involved in that.
Well, that’s why that’s why you’re special is called Love Joy, and not Killjoy. Right?
I mean, the abortion rights activists call themselves feminist buzzkills, because, you know, it’s like, I will bring up abortion any time, any chance I can, but I am a person who wants to celebrate it, and I want to be able to celebrate things that are positive for me. So that is the premise of Joy — I’m so happy my mother named me Joy because I want to bring joy to people and when it came to feeling like what my name for my album was gonna be, Ramon Rivas gave me that suggestion for a name and I was like, oh yeah, I like that. And then I was like, Love Joy makes sense. If Yell Joy is the album and you kind of can’t say the names without smiling. Who’s gonna say love joy or yell joy, who has a scowl on their face? So if only because you’re going to smile saying the name of the album or the special. That’s what I want to put into the world. I want to put positivity as much as possible, even though I talk about controversial topics.
Well, you have always brought joy to my my life. So thank you for doing that before and thank you for doing that again today. Thank you.
I appreciate you for having me, Sean.
Love Joy premieres Nov. 5, 2021, on Peacock.
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