One of my earliest and youngest readers grows up as a comedian and as a human
I knew as a newspaper reporter that my articles reached readers of all ages, as I grew up reading the papers on the kitchen tables of both my parents and my grandparents. But it wasn’t until Alex Edelman first introduced himself to me on the streets of Boston, outside Remingtons on Boylston Street during the Boston Comedy Festival, that I understood, oh, right, there might be kids who want to be comedians reading my comedy column. After all, I was once that kid in comedy, wanting to absorb any and all information about stand-up, and asking every headliner who came through town to pass along even the slightest bit of wisdom or secrets of the art form. And yet, seeing this energetic teen follow me into Remingtons and down into the Dick Doherty’s Beantown Vault, I was slightly startled.
Some 15 years later, Edelman has more than grown up. In 2014, he won the Best Newcomer prize at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe for his first one-man show, “Millennial.” His third show, “Just For Us,” just began an off-Broadway run last night at the Cherry Lane Theatre, presented by Mike Birbiglia.
The number of people Edelman credits for his success along the way is quite lengthy and generous. At one point, he even joked about how many shout-outs he was giving and how much he must owe to so many people. That’s a nice sign of humility.
Not pictured nor heard nor mentioned by name, but definitely a presence in the room and his life during our podcast — Edelman’s girlfriend, comedian/actress Hannah Einbinder, who stars in the HBO Max original series, Hacks.
You can hear the podcast here:
Here is an edited and slightly condensed transcript of my conversation with Alex Edelman!
Sean L. McCarthy: Last things first! If you were offered a front-office job with the Boston Red Sox today, but you had to give up your comedy career, would you take the deal?
Alex Edelman: It wouldn’t even take me five seconds to say no. It wouldn’t even — you remember me from when I was still working at the Red Sox? But no, I wouldn’t. I wouldn’t do that. I appreciate baseball but I think that the Red Sox… I’ve changed and the Red Sox have changed, which isn’t to say I’ll never work in baseball again. I would love to after a wonderfully fruitful comedy career go back to a career in baseball, but I think it would be one that’s a little more holistic and one that’s maybe suited to Minor League Baseball or suited to like something fun and silly and goofy, like the way there’s a guy named Mike Veeck, whose father Bill Veeck on a bunch of baseball teams and Mike runs his baseball teams with Bill Murray. And he does it in a goofy way. So look, the comedy to baseball pipeline is well established. So I would love that and I still keep my hand in with a couple of minor league baseball teams and a little I do a little like behind the back consulting and chatting with with some baseball folks. So I’m still a little involved in baseball.
Right. And the baseball name you name drop, Bill Veeck, legendary goofball.
Of course! Send a midget to the plate to bat. Eddie Gaedel was the name of the midget that’s how you know your baseball.
And has his team dress in shorts.
Yes! We don’t have much sports memorabilia in the house, but I bought this online. A signed portrait of Ted Williams. And Hannah, my girlfriend, was like we’ll save that for when you get an office. Like that’s not going up in this house and then I’m like yeah, you’re right.
Did you buy that with your Beck money?
Everybody knows that opening for bands is where the money is.
I was surprised that bands still had comedians over opening for them and comedians still chose to open friends when I saw you opening for Beck.
You know what’s rare is there’s a particularly maverick sect of musicians. Most of them are folks like St. Vincent’s recently had Ali Macofsky open for her. And, you know, this isn’t actually my first time doing Beck. And I mean, Bobcat Goldthwait used to open for Nirvana. Like I realize those days are past, but bands love it because there’s no load in, and audiences remember it more than they remember some like no name bands. It’s a really good idea and it’s a lot of fun. And I got a bunch of like really nice new fans who are like Beck fans, which is so sweet.
So what was the 15 year old Alex Edelman think of 2021 Alex Edelman?
He’d be so excited that he has a nice girlfriend. He’d be so excited that he lives in his own apartment and not with his parents. He’d be very disappointed that we aren’t full-time working in baseball. He’d be bemused, but happy about his level. of religiosity. He’d be so excited that he got to meet Robin Williams. So dismayed that he hasn’t met Steve Martin. So thrilled that he’s met Mel Brooks and, you know, if I said like, Hey, you play your rent with comedy he’d be like, Oh My God. My girlfriend just laughed at me from the other room.
I asked because you were what, 15 or 16, when you seemed so excited to meet me!
I was! And remain, too, by the way. I grew up in the best comedy scene in the country at the best time. If you think about the sheer tonnage of working comics, who were sort of emerging, maybe Chicago at the time gave Boston a run for its money. But, you know, it was very cool, like a lot of those guys that, you know, became stalwarts were, but also by the way I was not, I was still incubating as a comic. Like the comics that I gravitated to were much more like the Josh Gondelman, Gary Gulman types. And you know, they weren’t the predominant comics in Boston. There were a bunch of comics that really weren’t for me, and I feel like I picked up some bad habits that took a couple years to dispel. I really loved comedy and Boston was a great place to love comedy. That my first show ever was Comics Come Home. I mean, like that once a year. Denis Leary brings the best comics in the country and puts them in a huge arena. And it’s very comedy forward lineup, like there are famous names, but there are also a lot of great working comics like Tony V. And the first year I saw included Jim Lauletta and Don Gavin and Lenny Clarke. Why are you laughing?
How you leaned into the pronunciation of Lenny Clarke!
When I see him in my mind, I see him being introduced by (his brother) Mike onstage. Also, Kevin Knox. Remember Knoxie? Those guys were great mentors to me. They were people I seriously idolized.
Kevin Knox went by “the wild man of comedy.”
With big long hair, but by the time I met him, he was bald from all the chemo. But those guys were such big parts of my teenage years and like the Comedy Connection in Boston, and I was just at the Wilbur on Friday opening for Gulman. Two weeks before that, I was at the Wilbur opening for Birbiglia. Those were guys I saw at the Connection and just totally worshiped.
Was it tough to get into the Comedy Connection as a teenager?
Yes and no. There were two guys who worked the door and one of them I don’t know what he’s up to, but his name is Mike Hanson, and he was a lovely, tall blond kid from New Hampshire, he would let me in. And also Adam Ginivisian, who’s now an agent at ICM. He would let me in. Also there was a woman who worked the front door, whose name I think was Julia or Juliet, and if either of those three people were working, I stood a decent shot of getting into the Connection. And then Ryan Cott got to know me and he would let me if I behaved myself, watch from the back. Remember the back corner near the like hallway?
Right. There was a hallway that led crowds after shows to a back bar.
Yeah, and one night these two cops came in, and I was underage. Ryan went, you, down the hallway. So I was hiding in the back bar until the cops left.
Ryan managed the club and booked the opening acts at the Comedy Connection in Faneuil Hall.
He was fairly good to me. I was not a good comic. So it was nice of him to encourage me. I had a couple of good sets, but I wasn’t a good comic. You know, I ran into him a couple of weeks ago at Moontower Comedy Festival with my girlfriend and Adam, and I wanted to go, hey, these guys are the reason I’m a comic.
And also there were some really horrible people in the comedy scene who treated me terribly and bullied me, because I was such a young guy. And so it was important to have those people who were looking out for me, and yeah, a bunch of those guys who look after me they’re still in comedy and they’re still doing it like Myq Kaplan always looked out for me. Joe List. Dan Boulger, who was closest to my age of everyone is still like, you know, for my money like one of the five or six funniest comics working period, like he’s so good. Alan David would drive me around. By the way, Alan David was also a waiter at the Cheesecake Factory, and one time I took a date there and barely had enough money to pay. He was like, “I got you, baby.” He was so sweet.
All the comics with like four or five notable exceptions whose names I won’t say because it would be like crappy of me at this point to like single them out, plus some of them would apologize a couple of days later be like hey, when I did that thing, that was shitty. But it was awesome. Sorry, I’m rambling now because I’m like fondly reminiscing in a way I don’t usually get to.
Well the amazing thing to me, other than the fact that you were so young and so deeply invested in comedy was that you also somehow managed to be working for the Boston Red Sox at a time when they were finally experiencing success.
Well, maybe it was cause and effect, Sean. Maybe I’m the reason! No, I wasn’t. It was a place where you could show up and do stuff and participate and people would let you and I don’t know if the world is like that anymore. Like a small to medium sized city like Boston where you could like, rollerblade to everything? You can’t do that in like New York or Los Angeles. But it was a place where you could show up and I did a lot of showing up. For the most part, there were good people everywhere who let me stay. And like I was really interested in a lot of stuff like, you know, I went to a lot of classes at Harvard, that I wasn’t in, just sat there and watched. Because there was time you could show up and do stuff and the Red Sox was a perfect example. I showed up and kept showing up and kept asking, kept not taking no for an answer. And like, some of that might be one of those things, it’s a superpower when you’re a kid that’s annoying as an adult, or like annoying as a kid too, right? I’m sure not everyone was excited that this kid kept showing up at the open mic and being not good and still trying to get five minutes.
But I imagine there’d be thousands of kids showing up at Fenway Park, saying please let me do anything. So not all of them actually get to do it.
You always need a person who’s willing to look at you right. There was a woman named Colleen Reilly who worked at the Red Sox. She’s still in Boston and came to the show at the Wilbur, I introduced her to Gary Gulman. Colleen was the person that when I was 12 years old, I rollerbladed up to her on the street. So annoying. Mooney was the groundskeeper and wouldn’t let me in. She let me come. And kept me there. When it came to think of someone for a job, she said, How about that annoying kid who keeps coming around?
Really?!
Yeah, it was this one person single-handedly. And then there were like four or five other people and I remember all of them. Marcita Thompson. Sarah McKenna, who still works there in Fan Services. Mardi Fuller who now works in the Boston Public School District and writes freelance. And by the way, almost everyone was a woman. Many of them are women of color. And I felt really like excited by just being in this like new milieu with young, energetic baseball fans. And Marcita and Mardi just gave me a lot of like, opportunity and responsibility and freedom and of course, and I became friendly with Larry Lucchino, who was the president of the Red Sox for a long time and still is one of my closest mentors.
What was your job title?
It changed every six months. Dr. Charles Steinberg, who became my superior superior, they were just like in 2006, you work for Charles now, whatever Charles wants you to do, you do. And so I worked for Charles in 2006, 07. My title sometimes was fan services coordinator, or consultant. Once Charles as a joke in 2006 called me a diplomat and it stuck, and I have an ID that says that still. But so when I moved over to the Dodgers with him in 2008, I was officially a fan service coordinator or fan service consultant or something, and then more nebulously referred to as like, public relations associate or Public Relations Coordinator, but by the way, these were like glorified internships, Sean. Internships with lots of fluidity and access.
But you still got to be there when they won the World Series in 2007, right?
Yeah, I was actually in rabbinical seminary in Israel when they made it to the World Series and I flew home, which the rabbis were not excited about. I got to go to Game Four in Colorado and watch them win the World Series and like, go to the party and then the rabbi call my mom, are you going to send him back? My mom relishing the opportunity, said, well, he’s gonna ride in the parade, and then he’ll come back to Israel.
That’s a good mom.
Really good mom. It’s such a good mom, actually. And, you know, I think my parents sort of enjoyed it by the end. They’re not baseball fans so they were kind of like bemused when I started falling in love of baseball. But the books behind me are novels, World War II books, baseball, Jewish books, and a huge tonnage of comedy bucks. I think that probably represents me rather well. But yeah, I had good parents too. Parents who were like permissive when they needed to be and restrictive when they needed to be.
I remember getting a message from you about starting a comedy club in Jerusalem, and wondering, what is happening with young Alex Edelman?
Look, it’s still I still, you know, interested in comedy and my Judaism and in fact, blending the two finally and talking about my Judaism in a more substantial way is what’s led to this show and what’s led to greater success. I think the perfect physical setting that reflects my interior is probably a kid in rabbinical school who started a comedy club and going home for the World Series. That’s the perfect set of three for Alex Edelman. But yeah, it’s standard for modern Orthodox Jews to spend a year after high school in Jerusalem. It’s not like a crazy special thing. And so I did it and got really into, it’s where I started to become a little bit better comic where I shed some of the bad habits of Boston, like edgy Boston comedy. That didn’t happen fully until I studied abroad in the UK, but I think travel has always been my friend in terms of like, growing as an artist and a person. And so because of that, even in the pandemic, you know, I spent a lot of time in LA hiking and I dragged my girlfriend to Zion in the middle of the pandemic, because it was outside and pretty COVID safe.
I did that, too, going with my girlfriend to Zion!
Oh man, it’s beautiful. And by the way, we’ve been to Salt Lake City twice in the pandemic, because my brother’s living there and it’s the most stunning place. Yeah, it’s not like I’m an inveterate traveler, which isn’t to say that I’m completely exhausted by the travel that I have to do but I’m psyched to be back in New York for a month doing this show.
You mentioned how it was it was the UK where you found your voice and it just reminds me that when you were first in New York City, I remember seeing you a few times and it was always with with Gary Gulman, and he would vouch for you to get guest sets. You were still so young and still so raw onstage. And looking back on that now. I wonder just how vital it was to have someone like Gary Gulman in your corner, taking you under his wing vouching for you when you were still kind of struggling.
Huge! Incalculable. For five or six good reasons but 1) you need someone to push you to keep going, 2) you need someone to tell others that they believe in you. 3) you need someone that you can watch and follow, because 4) you need to have extremely high standards for yourself. Like whenever anyone asks me for advice, I’m like, if you set really high standards for yourself, you’ll hit those standards. Like everyone gets to where they want to go creatively as long as they like really turn towards it. Everybody does like, if you aim for a goal creatively and move toward it, like it will happen. So you just need to make sure that you’re aiming for something like really special and Gulman is you know, one of the most special comics in the country, in the world. And so, you know, he was a great example to me. And 5) you need to have peers that you just love being amongst. You need someone who you want to be proud of you. I idolized comedians so much that you know, said to a friend of mine that I think the reason I do this is so that I can sit at a table with my favorite comics and call myself a peer. I really do kind of believe that. Like I think I believed that since I was 16 years old. Colin Quinn was the first solo show I saw in New York City and I saw Long Story Short, it was amazing. And then, you know, I went to see Colin’s latest show at the Lortel, and afterwards he’s talking to me like another comic. I was kvelling. This is a fucking genius. And this is a guy who I really respect with a distinct point of view that isn’t exactly like mine. But having a Gary Gulman to vouch for you. Gary and are still like really close friends. And he still does the same things for me that he did when I was 16 which is that he will call me on jokes that are bad. Which is super vitally important. It’s so important, like you need someone who will do that for you. And I’ll always love him for it and the other day I saw him, and I pitched him a joke I was thinking of and he lit into me for it because it was funny, but it was from the wrong perspective. And like you know, you need people who won’t let you off the hook for that. Like Gulman doesn’t let me off the hook for anything. Daniel Sloss who’s Scottish, doesn’t let me off the hook for anything.
Even my girlfriend is a brilliant comic and she doesn’t let me off the hook for anything. You need those people in your life who will like push you and ultimately you follow your own gut but, Josie Long who’s another British comic. Josie would vouch for me big time. You need those people who see something in you. Especially when you don’t see it, because it’s easy when you’re established but man, I just love Gary Gulman. He’s lovable but also uncompromising.
What was it about the UK then that made everything kind of click into place for you? Was it the setting? Was it the people like you mentioned there were people like Josie and Daniel?
Something to do with them and somebody to dow with me. First of all, it’s hard to establish yourself in the place where you incubate. People will always see you as a kid in some ways. But also I was a senior in college and I was doing comedy I wasn’t very proud of, but I was doing OK.
Which was sort of the goal right? And then I moved to the UK. I had been exposed to pretty much only New York City Club comedy which was a great aesthetic, but the content wasn’t exactly for me. There wasn’t there was a burgeoning alt scene but that had like a coolness barrier to entry that it couldn’t quite get into. But it felt like when I went to the UK, people sort of accepted me a little more and also I saw comics doing comedy in ways that were really different, really challenging the form. In like aesthetic and content. I saw comics like Stewart Lee and Bridget Christie and Josie and a bunch of sketch comics that I worshipped as well. And I think a lot of those influences just really were brought to bear on me and also I was like, I always had a sense that if I could do an hour, I could get people to recognize that I was getting somewhere. And in the UK it was easier to do an hour, or the hour was more of a thing that any comic could do instead of just you know these huge comedians, headlining comics. And so I sort of got there because of that, but also Josie there was like a turning point. Josie had this night called Lost Treasures of the Black Heart where people would go onstage and talk about forgotten heroes or obscure items. And I just went up and did a regular set. The audience reaction was nice because they were warm, but it wasn’t in the spirit of the night. And Josie was kind enough to let me come back a few weeks later and do a set that was in the spirit of the night. And that was sort of a turning point for me where I just kind of kind of got there, but it had a lot to do with the zeitgeist there. It had a lot to do with the Soho Theatre on Dean Street in London, where you know, I went to the first preview of Fleabag. Phoebe Waller-Bridge was also like a big reason for me. I slept on Phoebe’s mom’s couch for a while, like that community was very supportive and encouraging of me figuring out what I needed to do. And I owe them everything. Also, if you’re listening to this podcast, basically you’re like, man, Alex owes a lot of people a lot of stuff and that’s totally….
But they can’t they can’t take your Best Newcomer Award from you, that you keep.
Yeah, but even then, you know, like my friend Dan Schreiber let me e put up premiums for that show in his living room, and you know, and people my friend Ross MacDonald, who’s a musician who I’d met in the UK talked me through all the anxieties. I made a bunch of like, really cool, unlikely friends and it was my first time as an adult basically doing stuff. It was just super magical and I owe I owe all of those things to other people.
Did that success at the Edinburgh Fringe, when you won for Millennial. Did that give you enough juice enough buzz enough confidence to go OK, I’m ready to to come back and give America a shot?
It was my first solo show in New York. I mean, like I think I’ve always viewed myself as a comic who was just grateful to work, wherever the work was, I went. So I worked a lot in England, and a lot in Australia. And I have worked in the US. I’ve been steadily headlining since 2016 or 2015, but it wasn’t an immediate thing, Sean, like I was working part-time jobs and day jobs until, you know, until Millennial won that award so I guess the money from that award let me quit and pursue comedy full time. But I don’t know that it broke me in America. It got me an agent and a manager. I already had a manager actually but it got me an agent who’s been wonderful and has gotten me consistent work in the US since then.
Was that what got you in the door for TV?
Yeah, it got me in the door for TV writing when I wrote on The Great Indoors and some stuff, but standup has always been a really great equalizer for not just me, but other comics. I also like different communities. Like I’m really fascinated by, I’m in love with people who love comedy so the comedy community is wonderful to me, but also like there’s the theatre community, the TV community, even the sports community, like I’m really in the media community, like I’m interested in all of those disparate people, and their different viewpoints because I always think that maybe getting in there somewhere will unlock something special for me
Does Saturday. Night Seder, does that kind of like is that the Venn diagram where they all kind of come together?
1,000% like it’s the best thing I’ve ever done Saturday Night Seder. A couple of friends of mine and myself, all Jews and some non-Jewish Passover enthusiasts online, and we made am online Passover Seder at the beginning of the pandemic and it was like a 70 minutes special and we raised like three and a half million dollars for COVID relief and like, it’s the best thing I’ve ever been a part of, because it was you know, all these people from different communities coming together. Like that Venn diagram is like creatives who are interested in Judaism and wanting to do something interesting with that love. So yeah, that’s actually the perfect example of that Venn diagram but I’m also hoping that like this show at the Cherry Lane will sort of diversify my community like the people that are coming to the show opening night are like some people are from theater. Some people are from music. Some people are from comedy. Some people are Jews, some people are my cousins. Like, you know, it’s like a Venn diagram of every little facet of my life.
It’s called Just For Us. It’s been it’s been part of you. How many years now? I mean, I first I remember you telling me about it pre pandemic.
2018. Yeah. I mean, it’s my best work so far. Like it’s about I went to this meeting of white nationalist in Queens, and I sat there for an hour. Like I said, it’s all just showing up, you know, sat there for an hour and that’s what the show is about. I mean, there’s a lot more about it, but also like, I kind of leaned away from my Judaism for a long time, stand-up wise, because I didn’t want to just be like the Jewish comic. But I guess this is me kind of leaning into it, and Judaism, it’s a big part of who I am. And so like kind of leaning into it yielded some nice. It’s introspective in the right way for a solo show. And that’s, I think, what drew Birbiglia to it. And also, I really loved the show Millennial, my second show Everything Handed To You was wonderful, and maybe I’ll do those shows again one day but this is a show that I’ll do until I die if people will let me. I just really love this show. And also this is its first us run like it did really nice performances at the Bell House for New York Comedy Festival and it’s something I’m really proud of, but this is sort of the culmination of it. Although maybe it’ll tour I don’t know.
Like the room in the same venue as me, at the Pleasance in Edinburgh, also hosted Jacqueline Novak’s Get Down On Your Knees. So I’ve been doing the show for about a shade less time than Jackie has been doing hers. Also she’s a wonderful role model for me, like when I when I came back from England in 2012 after college, I did a bunch of her and Kate Berlant’s shows at Cake Shop. She’s always one of my favorites. So you know, this is the only show Mike has produced besides Get Down On Your Knees. So hopefully it follows a performance arc at least.
How has the show changed? Now that you’re revisiting it?
Different things seemed important to me, through the filter of my own Judaism, so and different things felt like it needed real estate in the show, and also having Birbiglia’s eyes on it like what are you not going to use notes from the best there is at doing this thing I like? Birbiglia gave phenomenal notes. And it used to be a sort of blend of things that were far flung because I didn’t want to put too much weight on the central story. And Birbiglia encouraged me to sort of push out some of the other things and and just kind of lean into that, and also be a little more focused and be a little more strategic with the times that we step out of the room, and he got rid of lazy jokes still make their way you know into my comedy. They’re jokes that are way better than the jokes that I was doing, five years ago, but there’s still times we get a laugh or even a really good laugh, it’s a disappointment to an audience that subliminal they do is go that’s a shame that he paid that low hanging fruit. But my director Adam Brace, who I met at the Soho in 2012. We sat next to each other at that first preview of Fleabag. He and Mike gave some great notes, they’re still trying to push some really good notes towards me and we discuss them and also Trump not being president anymore, had a different thing and also I feel different responsibilities now as a comic and as a person. A lot of it has changed in small ways. You know, this is going to sound pretentious, but there’s a quote from Heraclitus. “A man can’t step in the same river twice. For he is not same man and it is not the same river.”
A lot of stuff has changed because you don’t take a year and a half off something and think about it everyday. I was on a tour during the show in UK when the pandemic started, so I owe the UK like four or five shows that have to be rescheduled. That’s gonna have to happen. And it feels like unfinished business and like I said, I love doing the show and I’m just absolutely gutted that I had to take a nap for year and a half but I have the most ideal auspices for coming out of the pandemic. It’s Mike fucking Birbiglia. He’s like one of the best in the world at this, if not the best, like, is there a better person doing solo shows right now, I don’t know who they are. He unquestionably thinks about it more than anyone I’ve ever met. Like conversations with him just belie this huge reservoir of knowledge.
Well, it’s a different muscle than doing them putting together a typical one hour stand up.
Sure, but I do think the best stand-up specials have an element of that that connects an hour for it because people don’t have the attention. span for an hour now even for their favorite comedians. They just don’t. So like sometimes I watch a comic do an hour killing all the way through. I went to some tapings of a series of specials that were all being taken the same place, and about 30 minutes into one of the tapings the crowd started dying and I thought to myself, like this is where the audience never will switch off the show on like television. There needs to be something that holds everything together. Or the jokes need to be so perfect you just start hanging on to see what comes next. Like but I would even argue that like that Brian Regan’s jokes and Sebastian Maniscalco’s jokes and Taylor Tomlinson’s jokes and Maria Bamford’s jokes and Dave Chappelle. Early Dave Chappelle jokes, the specials where there’s not a clear through line, they all hang together in a really nice way, because they have a distinctive point of view that paints a really nice portrait of the joke teller, and the best specials from those comics have that thing in common with each other and when I work on other people’s specials, sometimes I consult on other people’s specials. Audiences will laugh at you if they love you, and you technically do jokes, but if you want to really hold people together, it needs to be something that just like, it really needs to be something that has a little X Factor.
Or at least needs to be able to lip-synced on TikTok.
I mean, that’s huge. If you have something that’s listed on TikTok, then you’re just golden. You just made it.
Well, Alex, I look forward to seeing the new version of Just For Us.
Well, I’m psyched for you to see it too. Because you know me such a long time.
Yeah. Well, that’s the other thing I want to say is it’s been a pleasure to watch you grow up as both a human being and as a comedian, because I remember that little scrawny kid who ran up to me outside Dick Doherty’s Vault. And now he’s all grown up.
Thank you so much for taking the time to have me on and it’s just really nice. Like, the 15-year-old me would be very thrilled by pretty much everything. He’d be dismayed by a couple of things. But also, that kid was a dumb virgin who couldn’t look anyone in the eye or shake a hand so screw that kid, I owe him nothing.
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