Breaking down the Most Valuable Performers in Comedy for 2021
This is one of my favorite things I do each year. I keep telling Jason Zinoman, the comedy critic at The New York Times, that we are the Siskel and Ebert of comedy and should have our own weekly podcast, webseries and/or TV show where we dissect the world of comedy just as the late great Gene Siskel of The Chicago Tribune and Roger Ebert from the Chicago Sun-Times did for the movies from 1975-1999.
So far, Zinoman hasn’t bought my pitch. And yet, he does gleefully debate me in December every year since 2015 to wrap up the year in comedy by my terms of trying to name an MVP for the art form.
And this year, Zinoman did at least acknowledge my Siskel & Ebert comparison by clarifying that he feels like he’s more of a Richard Roeper, the Sun-Times columnist who inherited Siskel’s spot on the TV show from 2000-2008.
In previous years, Zinoman and I also used this opportunity to debate the state of the comedy industry and whether the boom had peaked or not. Obviously, times have changed since the pandemic. This year, though, we had perhaps our most enjoyable back-and-forth just over the merits of how we defined what it means to be an MVP in comedy!
You can listen to our conversation here…
If you’re new to Piffany or even my podcast, and you want to hear Zinoman and I debate past years in comedy, well, you are in luck!
And without further ado, here’s an edited transcript of our 2021 conversation!
Me: So, here we are, once again for our year-end discussion of the most valuable performers of comedy. The 2021 edition.
Zinoman: What a year what a year. Oh my god. We made it. We made it to the end. It’s good. It’s good to be here. It’s always a pleasure to be on here for this beloved annual tradition.
So year two of the pandemic. Somehow comedy is still with us.
I feel like this year somehow was harder to remember than 2020 was. Everyone knows March, there was before and after March. And this year, I feel like more things happened but generally it is worth noting that like, things did come back. Everything did come back. Live comedy returned to all the venues. And of course, at the end of the year, many of them closed and canceled once more.
It felt like 2021 was the year of the online comedian — the front-facing selfie camera comedian — and yet 2021 was not the year of TikTok. 2021 was just a hodgepodge of craziness. But I can definitively say who is not the comedy MVP this year — it’s a tie for the least valuable performers: Joe Rogan and Dave Chappelle.
Whoa whoa! Why is that?
They were probably the two biggest people in comedy who did the least to move comedy forward.
All right, that’s a strong take. I don’t disagree. But it is a weird thing. Like in some ways, this goes back to your definition of MVP. I mean, if it’s like impact, there’s no getting around that there’s nothing that everyone talked about more the Dave Chappelle special. Trust me. I’m not happy about it either. But, it made a massive, it was the biggest conversation piece of the year.
Look Jason, this is not Time Magazine. We don’t name numbnuts like Elon Musk Person of the Year or Adolf Hitler Person of the Year, just because they made a big impact. If the impact is bad, that’s not good. We’re here to talk about the most valuable performer, who’s making a good impact in comedy not trying to tear everybody apart.
So I can’t nominate Adolf Hitler, is what you’re telling me?
Did Hitler do anything new in comedy in 2021?
He’s always relevant in comedy.
Elon Musk tried to do things in comedy, at least. Elon Musk hosted Saturday Night Live this year.
Was that this year? So let’s ask the reverse. Who did worse for the world, Sean? Chappelle or Rogan?
I think it would have to be Rogan. I think because of the megaphone that he has, and the way that he used it throughout the year. When you have an actual MVP of the NFL, Aaron Rodgers, saying that you’re getting your medical advice from Joe Rogan, we have a problem. He’s infecting he’s infecting all parts of our universe.
Well, Rogan, I think it’s always this question of like, how serious do you take, you know, a comedian’s bad joke. But Rogan people really do look for serious answers and he really thinks of himself as like somebody who tells you the stuff that the world’s not going to tell you. And I think he’s a real news source for people and he was really interested in COVID and the treatments and the vaccines. And so I mean, I agree with you that hhis constant, irresponsible bullshit about the vaccine and about COVID. That has nothing to do with like, something that happened in a stand-up special.
Right. The biggest problem I have with people like Joe these days, is that they try to have it both ways, right? They try to say, oh, no, I’m just a comedian. Like I can’t believe people are even listening to me. But then please listen to me.
Yeah. My biggest problem is when he’s actually like, I forgot what he said but it was like when he was like, if I was talking to a young person. I would tell them don’t take the vaccine. Where it’s like, why would you even? This isn’t a joke. You get COVID You have access to the most expensive treatments in the world that other people don’t have access to. I mean, I don’t know in a way he’s hardly even a figure from comedy. He’s a figure in media at this point. But but you know, yeah, those are two not the most valuable players, I guess.
No, so now that I’ve ruled them out, and I’ve let you know, we’re not doing the Elon Musk or Hitler thing…
I’m disappointed. This definition of most valuable player shifts, but OK, I’ll go along with you.
Well, what is value? Like value is a positive term right?
It is, but you’ve never made it like what are the best specials, it’s just loose enough that you could, like I’m saying, I’m not complaining. I’m just saying that like, there are certain things that you know, I definitely felt this, like. I have to do like a best of comedy list. I don’t like doing top 10s because I feel like the real purpose of these things is to look back at the year and to kind of mark it and what the sort of significant moments were for our art form, and that we cover. So Chappelle didn’t make any of my best, but I felt like I needed to mention him because he was tremendously significant.
No, he dominated the conversation.
He dominated the conversation, and you know, there’s even a part of me that even though what I thought his work was mediocre and repetitive, and, you know, didn’t really deserve all of the attention. There other things that I would have preferred. I feel like I’m always interested in what Chappelle’s special is. And there are moments that every Chappelle special that I enjoy, and I like the ambition of Chappelle, even when I think it’s misguided. Now, there are moments on this new special that are, you know, just hard to swallow. I mean they’re really I mean, it’s also interesting to see the reaction to like, obviously the trans jokes got the mote in some ways the reaction to the Chappelle special tells you a lot about the culture and the pressure points in the culture of the moment because, like, what got the most attention was the trans jokes, but it was hardly the only group that he singled out and was offensive about. The MeToo stuff barely caused a ripple in 2021. That anti-Semitic things, zip! I saw Brian Koppelman the showrunner of Billions be like I want to option ‘Space Jews.’ It tells us something about the world and how people react and he’s clearly pushing buttons, you know, he knows what he’s doing. And honestly, the part that bothered me the most was actually the end about the trans woman, Daphne, if I’m pronouncing her name right, which actually a lot of people like that part. They thought that humanized him in a way, but I thought that he had a line where he said she’s not part of the trans community. She’s part of the comedian community. You know, that’s not his place to say. That’s not his place to say and, and that that’s a real person who’s not here to respond. I know that she had positive things say about him and her and her family had positive things to say, etc. But first of all, obviously, you could be part of both of those communities. And this is a person who just died. And yeah, that is just on a human level a shitty thing to do.
I thought it was distasteful. But he he would win Best Comedy Troll of the year. Because he was, like you said, he was pushing buttons. He knew exactly what he was doing and he once he pushed those buttons, he continued to do so throughout the year, releasing multiple clips to Instagram, to stoke the fire.
Obviously, he wants to be at this point in his career known as the guy who’s causing controversy and is being shut down. I mean, I was at a party or a small dinner party, I should say now, due to major COVID…
You’re one of the elite who does this!
I met somebody who’s at Netflix. This was like after it was part of the controversy, but he was saying, you know, Chappelle, after the controversy, said that nobody would buy his documentary, so he’s gonna release it on his own. So the Netflix guy told me that like, Chappelle was demanding, like the highest price of any documentary or something like ridiculous, right? So of course, none of these streamers took it because they don’t want to spend that much, but then he can go out and say they’re shutting me down, cancel me, and of course, he’s brilliant at this game, at finding ways. Even though he’s incredibly wealthy and popular, to play the aggrieved victim and victim of censorship, etc., and so on. On that front, some part of his like lizard brain that wants that understood that this like trans issue is the perfect vehicle for that. In some ways Joe Rogan is related to that and people like Jordan Peterson made their initial reputation on on trans stuff. So there is something interesting as a document about the Chappelle special, where like, it reveals something about cultural pressure points, and I think like, you can look back on like 2021 and that will be a key month. Alright, where are we? What were the fights about? There’s something about works of art that can do that, that I appreciate, even if I just dislike them.
Well, now that we would not have gotten those big elephants out of the way, who are the comedians who in your mind did the most good?
Ah, geez. That’s a horrible question, Sean. I don’t care about if they do good. I mean, I thought this was probably the biggest year for Bo Burnham. Inside, next to Chappelle, was probably the thing that got the most attention was Inside. Which, you know, I thought was one of a couple specials that created this new visual vocabulary for comedy specials. It was really cinematic. And not to mention musical, and spoke to the anxiety and, you know, isolation of the pandemic as well as any other work of art has. I think it’s also worth adding that in this year, early this year, Chris Rock rereleased a special which he took Bo Burnham’s work out of, who had directed it.
Tamborine.
And the work was I would argue worse, which also was to Bo Burnham credit. It was still good because it was Chris Rock. To me it revealed that what by taking away what Bo Burnham did, he revealed that his directorial choices which I thought were very clever, so that combined with Inside makes him have a pretty darn good year.
And don’t forget Bo also had a very featured role in the movie Promising Young Woman.
That’s right, that was this year. I’m curious, like, did you feel like that Inside was one where some people thought was like the greatest special that come along in years. Some people thought it was overrated. Some people thought it was emotionally powerful. What’s your take on it?
Well, I’m you know, I’m still putting together my my top 10 special list for the year. And right now, like I have three different versions of the best special and Bo’s, I think is the best overall work of art that was made about comedy this year, I think, because it spoke to our time, not just about the pandemic but about our relationship to media, and also our relationship to comedy. Like it managed to be like the Venn diagram of specials. And he even had Venn diagrams, on one of those whiteboards, but it managed to be like the Venn diagram of everything that’s going on. He was the zeitgeist is what he did. And he managed to do it in like the guest house of his girlfriend. So I had Bo down for the best work of art. My best stand-up special joke-for-joke, I would pick Roy Wood Jr.’s Imperfect Messenger from Comedy Central. And my best just out flat-out-funny special I would go with Nate Bargatze’s The Greatest Average American from Netflix.
Good ones. Those are all good ones. Yeah. My best special is James Acaster’s Cold Lasagne.
A lot of people love that. I’m going to put an asterisk next to it because he originally released it as a livestream in 2020.
Come on! That doesn’t count.
He sold it as a live stream. Technically, he put it out last year.
If you want to do that…wait, he sold it as a live stream? You had to buy tickets for it?
The first part yeah, was sold as a livestream. OK, so anyhow, but I see your point, as many other critics Yes, I’ve given James Acaster high marks for his cold lasagne.
I put that for my best special.
What about for other comedians just in terms of their overall body of work for 2021? Who do you want to shout out for their body of work?
I would say, Hannah Einbinder had a great year. Hacks, which was probably my favorite show about stand-up in years. And I saw her do stand up. She has sort of came to the fore as a stand up, and you know, had her first headlining tour. I saw her play The Bell House. I think she’s like a really exciting, adventurous new voice who I think you know, is going places, so I put her on that list.
OK, anyone else?
It was a good year for Jo Firestone. I feel like you know, after the pandemic, people wanted something comforting and heartfelt. And I think her special documentary about teaching senior citizens how to do comedy in this class was funny and poignant, and unexpected. And then at the same time, she also was in Joe Pera’s show. She’s sort of, you know, the perfect foil for him. Like she really manages to fit in his kind of weird, cockeyed Americana wholesome world in a way that it’s hard to imagine anybody else doing. Particularly anyone else who’s not like an actor. People in New York see her enough that they know she’s playing a character, but it’s also one that borrows from her own essence. So I thought it was a good year for her. I was impressed by Jim Gaffigan’s special. I think we kind of take him for granted sometimes because he’s so productive. And he’s a clean comic.
He even has a joke about that in the new special: America’s most underrated comedian.
He does have that edge like I remember seeing him live like 10 years ago and he was like, grumpy over people ignoring him because of Louis CK. And now I see him grumpy because people are paying attention to John Mulaney, not him. He’s aware of who’s just like getting the buzz.
There’s a slight Mulaney dig, and they both went to Georgetown. So I think it’s playful.
Interesting. Interesting.
What about the year Mulaney had?
He had a hell of a year. Although I don’t know if that’s for a comedy podcast but yeah, but it’s been a year for handsome men making jokes about their fraying mental health.
But enough about Pete Davidson.
That was one of the first big shows I saw after you know…
When things started opening up again?
Yeah, at City Winery. Did you see his show?
I have not gotten a chance to see him live on this tour, but he’s coming back through again in 2022 so…
It feels to me like this upcoming year is going to be the John Mulaney year. What that looks like or how good the special is, who knows? But I feel like he’s going to be the biggest story that’s special is going to be the biggest story in the way that you know, Bo Burnham and Chappelle’s were the big story. Because what we learned is that, you know, he’s not just like a popular comedian. He’s a massive massive celebrity who, you know, huge number of people are interested in. I didn’t really gather until his divorce. I didn’t really understand the scale of the celebrity, but the number of texts I got from friends who were interested and concerned about John Mulaney’s love life took me aback.
It is something to think about how there was a brief period where he went to Saturday Night Live to keep Pete Davidson company to make sure Pete was OK. Another they both kind of spiraled upward, outward and upward! They’re the true power couple.
They really are. Well, I wouldn’t have guessed that Pete Davidson would still be at Saturday Night Live.
Speaking of which, I have Cecily Strong on my list. Another person who I didn’t think would come back, but not only came back, but also like proved that she had more in the tank to give to SNL with her huge abortion reveal that she did on Update in a clown suit with makeup. And that was in addition to her, leaving over the summer to make Schmigadoon!, her first starring vehicle on Apple TV+. She came out with her first book over the summer. And as we’re speaking, she is starring in a new off-Broadway version of Lily Tomlin’s show, In Search of Intelligent Life in the Universe.
That already opened?
That opened on Tuesday, Dec. 21 at The Shed unless Omicron had other ideas.
That I’m very excited to see.
She’s having quite a year. I also had Lil Rel Howery on my list. I know you gave major props to Bad Trip, the Eric Andre Lil Rel Tiffany Haddish prank movie. That was funnier than it had any reason to be. And I felt like Lil Rel was the glue that held that whole thing together. His ability to just be grounded, I think allowed whoever they were around, whether it was the zoo or the country bar, it allowed people to believe because Lil Rel believed.
He’s a good actor. I mean, how many movies has he done that for?
Well, that’s what I was gonna say. That was only one of 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 movies he was in this year.
That’s incredible.
He was a scene stealer in the Academy-Award winning Judas and the Black Messiah, where he came in late as a pimp. He was in the forgettable Tom and Jerry movie. He was in one of Kevin Hart’s movies, Fatherhood. He was in the revamp of Space Jam. He was Ryan Reynolds’ buddy in Free Guy.
This has convinced me he shouldn’t be his buddy. You’re making a good argument that he should he’s been in all the worst movies.
He also was in Vacation Friends and now in the new movie National Champions. And he hosted a game show this summer on NBC called Small Fortune.
Didn’t he also present on the Oscars?
Oh, he part of the sketch.
Doing Da Butt.
But yes that was Lil Rel. So he really did, for being Lil Rel, he managed to make a big impact.
That’s striking the number of things he did. But that’s like he’s a great utility man, I guess, but I do agree with you that Bad Trip, he played a key role in that relationship between him and Eric Andre. At the core, you’re taking like this a bunch of silly stunts and pranks. Right? That could in other hands, you know, be like a TV show, but by the relationship he has with Eric Andre makes it a buddy movie that feels like has as much character development as a lot of other big budget comedies. And also his relationship with Tiffany Haddish is awesome, too.
Speaking of famous little people, Kevin Hart still keeps trucking.
See this is why I don’t understand your most…now you’re confusing me now. Why is Kevin Hart, one of the most valuable? How has he done the most good? What’s the argument?
OK, so here’s some of the
You’re upset at me for saying Rogan and Chappelle.
I’m talking about a body of work.
So you have to make the case. You barely made the case for Lil Rel, because quantity is not quality. Bad Trip, OK. But what are the other things Lil Rel did that is actually like… that Oscars thing was terrible. Tom and Jerry was terrible. Space Jam was beneath terrible.
Kevin Hart was responsible as an executive producer for the Dick Gregory documentary that came out this year.
OK
He was also an executive producer on Dave with people love Dave FX on Hulu. I’m not a fan of the white men rapping but everybody I know loves Dave.
Okay.
He’s ubiquitous on TV ads. You can’t get away from him on the TV. He had he had a Peacock talk show, as well as a his two other Peacock shows. One with Snoop Dogg and the Olympics and then they’re bringing them back for New Year’s Eve. And then he had all sorts of stuff on Sirius XM he’s got going on. He starred in two big Netflix movies, True Story and Fatherhood.
This is an unpersuasive argument. That’s just quantity. Kevin Hart would win every year! We might as well say Kevin Hart’s gonna win the next 10 years!
I’m not saying he’s my MVP. I just said he works hard.
So did Dave Chappelle! You have to make the case that is good or I thought the point you just lectured me about is that this is the most valuable. To do a lot of like mediocre work at best and have like a credit as executive producer on something, that’s not quality.
That’s why there’s two of us on this podcast.
I’ve got to hold your feet to the fire, Sean.
That’s why there’s a Siskel to my Ebert. There’s got to be some tension here.
I think I’m more Roeper.
OK, fair enough. Fair enough. I’m definitely the Ebert whether I like it or not, I’m definitely the Ebert in this situation.
How could you not like it? Ebert’s the greatest.
OK, what about Phoebe Robinson’s year?
It was good. For her it was a huge year. I think came into her own as this sort of like, empire. But again, I consider myself someone who’s interested in who contributed the most to comedy. And so it was not a great year for comedy.
So what do you consider the contribution then?
Phoebe Robinson started a book publishing house, which is probably the most interesting thing. I think it was like really fascinating. For a business story, that a comedian who, you know, does all sorts of things really well, you know, started a publishing house where she’s put out like, you know, slate of 15 books, on top of writing a book, but that to me is not about. That’s a different podcast that’s not about comedy.
So how are you defining the contribution, then?
I mean, it’s like comedy specials, live shows. To me, that’s why like, most valuable..
She had a special on HBO Max, she had a talk show on Comedy Central. She has turned her her first book into a Freeform TV series, and she got a development deal for Dewayne Perkins on ABC. That’s not nothing.
No, it’s as I said, it’s a quantity of things. She’s up there. I didn’t realize it was the is the the most player it’s the most valuable player.
OK so are you going back to then, like, is Bo Burnham the only candidate?
People who I thought had a huge impact or who I thought did great work were, I mentioned James Acster, Bo Burnham. Hannah Einbinder. You know, I think you can make the case for Lil Rel, I guess. But Jo Firestone. I would say if anything Ziwe has you know, in terms of reinventing the talk show. Personally, we’re in an age of multitasking. Every comedian has a million different projects, right? And so it really isn’t actually, I mean, yes, Phoebe Robinson is exceptional in this. In the quantity and scale of them. But so many comedians have like a million things they’re juggling podcasts, documentaries. Look at someone like Sam Morril, I mean, who works harder than that guy in terms of just making comedy making news special making documentaries?
Andrew Schulz.
Yes, Andrew Schulz. If it’s just quantity, then you should put Joe Rogan on the list. He puts out three-hour podcasts twice a week. I mean, that’s a different question. I think Ziwe did something you know, she was one of the people who you were talking about, who in 2020 was a star on like Instagram. And I think she as well as anybody that better leveraged that into creating this kind of interesting new kind of talk show. And so I think that she’s a really exciting new voice in kind of mainstream comedy. You know, interestingly, I would say like it was early in the year, but that Scorsese, Fran Leibowitz thing, which is again, like she doesn’t have a million things, and she’s a known quantity, but she sort of had fallen off the radar of a lot of people. I think she, for her this was like the most mainstream thing. And beginning of the year, she dominated conversation. And some people, some people actually didn’t like this. She got some negative views, but I actually think she’s tremendously skilled at what she does and is ultimately comedy. And so I think it was a good year for her.
Where would you put someone like Issa Rae then?
I don’t really, I’m not like as versed in TV. And I mean, clearly she’s important. But I haven’t watched as much.
Because she had her show (Insecure). But she was also responsible for A Black Lady Sketch Show coming back for season two. And then she had multiple other shows in development that came out in different venues.
Yeah, I mean, she wouldn’t be on my list. Like Black Lady Sketch Show would, like that’s something which I think is like, you know, one of the better things out there but no, for me that would not be on the comedy MVP list.
So neither would Jason Sudeikis and the Ted Lasso phenomenon.
I’m pretty ignorant about it so you should probably get somebody else to talk about it. Like I haven’t even seen Ted Lasso. Do you think it’s, would that be on your list?
No. Because that’s just one thing.
Right. Yeah. What else would you? It’s harder this year to find. There’s not much out there, like, I liked Nicole Byers new special. You know, because of the weird schedule, there was less comedy.
I gave big props to Amber Ruffin for what she’s been able to do, not just writing and performing on Seth Meyers, but then also anchoring her own weekly show on Peacock which is a great show which is also developing a larger stable of talent and in writers and performers coming up through her show.
Yeah, you’ve written a lot about her and convinced me to watch her stuff.
We talked last year about those those front facing comedians and how we were amazed that they didn’t move up the ranks. But you know, you just mentioned Ziwe and then James Austin Johnson had perhaps the best rookie debut on SNL since Dana Carvey.
Best since Dana Carvey? That’s interesting.
Yeah, in terms of getting his stuff on the air and being like a face of the show right from the very beginning. Like he was the first person we saw this season. Which is a lot to put on someone who’s never been on live network television before.
No, it’s true. He did. He had a fast start for sure. And I feel like the reason I wouldn’t put him there is because I think he benefited from the fact that Alec Baldwin was the face of Donald Trump, for so long, and that’s such a low bar. And to a large degree, people were like, Oh, wow, this guy actually has an interesting take on Trump. Unfortunately, it’s after Trump’s out of office it would have been nice if he was there for the previous years but
Let’s not try to wish things back into the… let’s be careful what we wish for.
That’s true. I have a lot of power here, putting my voice in the air. I’m sure on some level in the back of his head, I’m sure Lorne is thinking that. I mean, look, one way or the other, Trump is going to be more in the news in 2022. And so they needed someone. I mean, they’ll benefit from someone better than Alec Baldwin for sure.
Is there anything you’re genuinely looking forward to in 2022 in terms of comedy?
A lot. A bunch of things. Taylor Tomlinson’s new special I’m really looking forward to, I mean, she had a really promising first special that I just watched again, to kind of remember because I didn’t end up writing much about it. But she, you know, I think she’s got a lot of you know, a lot of the joke talent skill to produce something really great and I think that the time you know, I think the time away could have been helpful. Ronny Chieng I saw I’ve seen some of his stuff and upcoming special which is really good.
Yeah, both Taylor and Ronny had great debut Netflix specials.
I remember watching and being like, Oh wow, this guy is like he’s so polished and accomplished in his voice. I guess he has like a bunch of specials.
From when he was in Australia.
So he’s got like many specials, like he’s been a very productive guy but it was his debut for Netflix or for us to see. But it made more sense to me because he really is like a pro. So that’s what I’m looking to. What are you looking forward to?
I’m looking forward to Nikki Glaser filmed something for HBO. They also in January have a new show that stars Bridget Everett, which should be interesting to see how she does when given a leading role. She’s always put on a firecracker of a show at Joe’s Pub or comedy festivals across the country.
For sure, that will be interesting. i love Bridget Everett. But I’m also interested because like part of what makes her show so exciting is the liveness of it, so it will interesting to see how it translates to a show.
I guess more generally I’m also looking forward to see what comedians actually want to talk about because we managed to go this whole podcast without saying the two magic words that seem to be on every comedian’s lips over the past year. So I think that means we’re moving forward and able to talk about anything without the societal pressures of not renewing people.
Yeah, maybe that’s been played out. Maybe that’s a little played out.
I like to think that yeah, I mean, you know, Louis CK just came out with another special and everybody was quick to Twitter to say that, Well, I guess that isn’t real! If if these guys are getting new specials and getting Grammy nominations for them.
Yeah, I mean, as we’ve talked before, the whole discussion is tedious. I don’t know I think that point is silly too, like, it’s silly. The idea that like it’s not like Louis CK did not have some repercussions for his bad behavior. Yeah, he obviously did now you could argue over the level of repercussions. The problem with this discussion is there’s just like an inability to have like a good faith. Like willing to be like alright, the other side ism’t inventing something. Like the people who are saying, you know, cancel culture are overrated.
Oh, you said it! You said the magic word of the podcast.
But it’s also I feel you could protest too much. If you’re making the case, that you know, that social media doesn’t allow people to organize quicker or faster than about things like you know, Chris Noth being a sexual predator. That’s wrong. Clearly something’s changed. Or, you know, on a smaller scale, a comedian making a joke that offends people. It’s much easier there. There is something there, it’s not completely imagined. But it just operates in a much more complicated way than people allow. So, Louis, clearly, his career. You know, any fair person has to admit that his career took a hit. He lost some audiences.
There’s some tarnish.
There’s some tarnish for sure. And because not only did he lose some audiences, he’ll never get them back. But he also did some audiences.
He still has plenty of people who want to pay money to see him and pay money to download his special.
Some of those people are new people. Like the reason you can’t not say you make cancel culture is because it has an important impact. Now it’s its own market. It’s a business story. It’s like all right, for certain younger comics, they see that like, oh, we can develop a market by being against cancel culture. So I mean, and that has an impact on like, aright, does that shape the kind of comedy? You know?
It’s like Hillary Clinton called Trump supporters deplorable, and then they started making T shirts.
Yep. I happen to think that and I think, I don’t think this is a popular view. But I don’t think that the last two Louis CK specials post scandal are dramatically different than his previous work. But if you look on Twitter, you wouldn’t necessarily get that impression. They took one of his jokes out context. They said now he sounds just like Steven Crowder, who if your listeners don’t know, he’s a right wing YouTuber. You know, sounds like right wing talk to us. And I just don’t hear that. I hear very similar interest and stuff.
No, yeah, his new hour, Sorry, yeah, it’s pretty classic Louis CK premises.
Yep. Yeah. So if you’d like Louis CK style humor. I think you’ll like this hour.
That’s what I said in my review. I’m like, if you liked this comedy before, this is right up your alley.
And let’s be honest, before the scandal, a massive number of people liked Louis CK’s comedy, right. And but, you know, this is a different time in terms of his his career. But I think it is notable that he, I don’t think he’s trying to play into the culture war discussion. I think he’s trying to do what he always did. But the context has shifted.
Yeah. Well, Jason, I think we’ve we’ve we’ve wrapped a bow on 2021.
We’ve covered a lot of ground. Do you go to shows? How many shows do you go to, did you go to as many shows this year?
No, I mostly watched here on the computer.
You didn’t go to any live shows?
I went to a couple but not as much as I used to.
Do you plan on changing that next year?
I’d like to think next year will be different but yeah, but I thought this year would be different.
Right? Right. To me, that’s the real story of this year. I feel like there was a moment in the summer before Delta that was one of the best months of comedy I’ve had in New York, where it seemed like, oh, we were coming out of this thing. You know, people were back. They were thrilled. They were excited to be among other communities of people again
That was July I think.
Yeah, so I saw Ali Wong and people were laughing. I saw John Mulaney, people were laughing at everything. It was really thrilling and I really felt optimistic about comedy and and then delta came and that vanished and then there was a new anxiety and then that started to dissipate and I came back but I was, you know, I went to fewer shows. But and I was definitely much more cautious. And but then this new thing came and then so it’s it’s tricky because I mean, comedy depends on anxiety, but there’s a tension release. There’s a lot of tension in the room now. Right?
So 2022 can only be great!
Yes. Let’s just say yes.
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