From The Comic's Comic

Episode #384

Toronto has a rich history of producing great sketch comedy performers and troupes that have crossed over in the United States. Among the TV series: SCTV. Bizzare. The Kids in the Hall. Baroness Von Sketch Show. And now the foursome from the sketch group, TallBoyz II Men, who broke out quickly from the 2018 Toronto Sketch Comedy Festival, premiering their own TV show on the CBC in 2019. TallBoyz — created by and starring Guled Abdi, Vance Banzo, Tim Blair and Franco Nguyen, and brought to TV by showrunner, director and Kid In the Hall Bruce McCulloch — not only won multiple Canadian Screen Awards in 2022. They also hosted the ceremony; and already celebrating as their show got picked up in the U.S. The first season of TallBoyz premiered on Fuse in March 2022, with seasons two and three to air later in the year. Guled and Franco sat down with me to talk about their rapid rise in the business and what it’s like to make sketch comedy with one of the greats.

Here’s a taste of their sketchy sensibilities!

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But first, or second, or last things third…here’s another signifier of how they’re already well-known in Canada: They’ve played on Family Feud!

How does it feel now, since TallBoyz has aired on the CBC in Canada for three seasons, just now getting your chance to be introduced to American audiences?

Franco: I think it’s really exciting because I mean, the reality for a lot of Canadians is 90% of the programming we watch is American TV. So like most of our references are all American stuff. Even when we pull out our money and we look down, we’re like, ‘Well, why is it so colorful? It’s not like on TV.’ We’re so inundated with American media. It’s really exciting. It just feels like wow, we’re on those fancy, fancy red, white and blue networks.

Guled: That’s what we refer to American channels as: Red, white and blue networks.

Franco: That’s what we call the USA Network.

What do you call FOX News?

Guled: Extremely Red, White and Blue.

Franco: Mainly Red.

Tell me a little bit how the four of you got together. I mean, the very first sketch from season one seems to imply some backstory for how you guys are friends, right? As you’re standing on the roof, talking about who’s best friends with each other — is that really how the friendships started to happen? Either through growing up together as kids or being an improv class, or what actually happened?

Franco: There’s some truth to that. We all met each other initially through the open mic stand-up scene in Toronto. Vance and Tim actually first met each other studying comedy at Humber College in Toronto. You can study comedy in Canada. It’s pretty legitimate. So they knew each other through that, and the rest of us met each other just through the stand-up scene. And then I saw Tim at a Second City class and I was like, ‘Hey, Tim, we should do some improv’ because usually, stand-ups are like only doing stand-up. Everyone’s just doing improv or sketch or stand-up. The worlds don’t really collide. So I was like Tim, you’re vulnerable enough to take somewhat of an acting class? We should do some more of it. And then Vance and Tim worked together. So it seems like we should bring Vance on board. And Guled is my best friend, so we always talked about doing stuff together. And the four of us came together when there was a Toronto Sketch Comedy Festival — in the end, we never did any improv together until after we started doing sketch, so that’s really how everything came about. Right, Guled? Am I forgetting something?

Guled: No, that’s pretty much it. We saw each other. We liked each other’s comedy. And we joined forces and said, let’s do comedy together.

What year was that?

both: 2016

Guled: Yeah 2016, around October, and like our first outing at Toronto SketchFest is where we met the producers that we are currently working with on TallBoyz and so all of it happened so quickly because we met them like six months into being a troupe. And then we had a show like a year and a half later. So it was all so fast and so sudden of just going from we like each other’s comedy, let’s work together, and they’re like, do you want a TV show? We’re like yeah, let’s do TV, and then we’re making a TV show. It felt like so wild.

Now what was it other than your greatness, your natural comedic talent? What was it that made the gears move so fast? Was it word of mouth from your live shows? Or was it through YouTube or TikTok? What made it happen so fast for you?

Guled: It was truly though live performance. Because I truly describe it as almost like, the community had our back and was celebrating us. Like our first outing at Toronto SketchFest. We got such raucous applause from the crowd, and the producers of the fest were also watching our sets. And they’re the ones that told Accent (Entertainment), who we work with on TallBoyz, to come check us out. They were watching a bunch of troupes in the festival. And they said I think you guys need to watch Tallboyz, because I think they have something so it was really just like, I think, just being funny, being at the right time at the right place. Those producers seeing us and then also, it definitely helped that, you know, like, at that time, you know, really it was Kim’s Convenience. And what else was there, TV shows that had diverse lineups on? I don’t think there was a lot that the CBC had at the time. And so there was definitely a hole in their programming. And so they’re like, this troupe, I think not only funny but they could fill that hole of having diverse performers onscreen.

Did you have like a five-year plan or did you have like an initial group ambition for TallBoyz? Or rather TallBoyz II Men, I suppose was the initial plan?

Franco: We were TallBoyZ II Men initially. Our first show, we did it at a stand-up open mic. We felt like it was a real challenge because even though the open mic was kind of like a variety show, it was mainly stand-up comedians. And open mics generally, people are kind of like crossing their arms because everyone’s kind of in their heads waiting to go onstage so you don’t really get a big reaction from the audience.

Franco: So when we did our first sketch, the Public Service Announcer sketch, it got such a big reaction. So we thought it was very unique to have this type of chemistry so early on. Because we were just having fun with each other. We didn’t really have a plan. Our first initial plan was just to do well at that open mic, just to see if we had chemistry to have fun. And it went so well. And then the next plan was just to do the Toronto SketchFest. We weren’t really thinking about showcasing in front of television producers. But because we were just focused on putting on a good show, and not really stressing about what was in the future, in some ways it really benefited us because we were really excited about what was present, in the moment, the best it could be. So there was a thing called the sketch incubator. One of the nights during the sketch festival, because all the sketch performers don’t get a chance to watch each other because they’re performing all the time. So there’s a night where there’s like free beer and you just kind of go onstage, and you do your sketches in front of other sketch performers. And when we went on and we did ours, our sketch, it was like the room was — it was shaking. I’d like never gotten a reaction like that. And it was really gratifying because it wasn’t just Toronto comedians, it was comedians from all over the U.S., like Philadelphia and Chicago. And it was like, me, Tim: We did a showcase where Second City sent us to Chicago, and some other troupe members from Chicago were like, I still remember that sketch, it’s crazy. But yeah, there was never any real plan, but kind of like accidentally hitting the template of like A Star Is Born type of thing where we went to a showcase. Like, we didn’t even think about the festival as a showcase opportunity. We just thought it’d be fun to be part of the festival, as like a stamp of being a legitimate comedic troupe. And just in that moment, it was like we just wanted the Pokemon badge. And it turns out there was more than that. It’s a festival but also a market at this point. Producers were seeking out talent. And the funny thing about this show was that Caitlin Brown was the producer at Accent, and after the show she came up to Guled, and she’s like, ‘You guys are really great. Have you ever thought about doing TV?’ And Guled was like, ‘Yeah, we have’ and then we just never followed up with her for seven months. Like, who knows how much faster it could have been? But it was just like one of those things where post- show, the show was so good, we were just basking in the compliments and not really listening to it.

Guled: And in my defense. I had never been asked that question before. Like the TV show, I was nervous. Like, I gotta say yes. Even though it wasn’t a thought I’d had. Yes. Yes! I have thought of a TV show since birth…

That’s improv is you say yes.

Guled: Truly. Yes. I said yes. And I never followed with the and. Bad improv.

Franco: Our and took seven months.

It’s fascinating to me. And perhaps it’s 1) because I’m older and 2) because I’ve been talking to comedians for so long. It’s fascinating to me that we’ve been speaking now for several minutes, and not once has either one of you talked about looking at YouTube or the web or doing a web series in service of furthering your career.

Guled: I feel like we were lucky in certain ways, because like we were coming from the live performance. We have like collectively and individually been performing for many years before we were TallBoyz. Stand up and improv. Franco, Tim and Vance had been part of other troupes. I was another troupe with Franco called Fusion. So we’ve done a bunch of stuff and have been watching other YouTubers and sketch comedians do the craft. But really, we were just so focused on just performing, and everything happened I felt like, so quickly that there wasn’t really that like, oh, let’s put together a web series let’s do this. Our web series was let’s make a show. An opportunity dropped in our laps of they’re like, do you guys want to make a TV show? And then just learning how to write TV for the first time. I remember being in the room and being walked through this is how you edit a script. Because I’d never written a script. A lot of black box for sketch, you just for stage. It’s just people talking and then maybe an action line every now and then for something — usually it’s like a cue for the tech person to either put on the lights or play some music, but on TV you’ve gotta say where you guys are. So I’m like, Ah! Interior, house, day. I’ve got to start the scene with a physical location as opposed to just talking.

Franco: Yeah, we were in the beginning stages of developing our own web series, like whether or not we were gonna, like, get onboard with Accent. We had an idea of our own that we actually show to accent and they were interested in that property, as well. But I think in the end, I think they were more interested in just working with us. A sketch comedy show felt like it was an adaptation from stage to stage to screen.

By virtue of the serendipity of it all, you never had to worry about trying to go viral in social media.

Guled: I mean, I still worry about it.

Franco: Yeah, truly.

Guled: We have a TV show and I’m so grateful for it. But yeah, there’s still that part of me that’s like, because in stand-up comedy, it feels like the message I’ve taken in as you’re only as good as your last set. So the viral feels like that. I haven’t had a tweet, hit triple digits in a very long time. I need to do something. So that energy is still there of wanting to go viral. But I don’t know how healthy it is for performing or creating from that place.

Franco: I can’t speak to other comedians, but I feel like maybe it’s different in Toronto where the only viable path to making a living in comedy would be getting passed at Yuk Yuks for getting on the main stage at Second City. Whereas like if you make a viral video, you could go super viral. It is just seems so difficult to do that because you’re pouring a cup of water in this vast saturated ocean. And so it just seems much more practical and easier to take classes and constantly audition and try to do as many sets as you can, because that seems like something that’s within your control and you can recognize the growth there. Whereas when you just constantly upload it just seems so challenging.

Is that also, indirectly, part of the virtue of only starting together as a group in 2016? That you got to essentially miss the entire cycle of social media, where the first YouTube stars and the first people to go viral on all these different platforms. And then it became so oversaturated that it no longer became a viable path. So then it kind of goes back to the old ways of doing things where it’s just, oh, you’re live and you’re onstage and people see you and if they like you then it builds from there.

Franco: From Canada, Picnicface had already hit (2011). It already felt like already in that moment. It was so saturated like it always feels like you’ve missed it. Even with TikTok now it feels like there are people getting millions of followers already. So it always feels like you’re always behind. But I think a big part of it, too, is like we have a stronger passion for the live performance as well. Like sometimes, you know, if you’re a stand-up you really want to have good jokes that you want to develop a really strong act, and you can take it on the road. And if you put it online, I don’t know, that’s probably changed. But at the time, it felt like if you put something online, you’re kind of giving away your material. Can you do a JFL set if you’ve already uploaded online? Can you do a late-night set if you’ve already uploaded it? I guess the sketch thing happened so quickly. So perhaps if we didn’t get on TV so soon, most likely we would have been making videos on our own and uploading it. We did one version of our PSA online. Our friend Roger Bainbridge, and a group of other guys, Rodrigo Fernandez-Stoll, they’re like these funny filmmakers in Toronto. They helped us. And I think we probably would have kept on going.

You mentioned JFL. Just For Laughs, in response to the rise of social media creators, added in recent years a New Faces Creators session for the Montreal festival, but that was never something that you guys thought about that, that that could be your route?

Guled: It’s really cool that that exists. Because it’s embracing the internet, you know, because there’s so many people who are making great content. Like I’m on TikTok a lot and I, personally, am scared of putting stuff online because of how many eyeballs are viewing it. I don’t know if I have the tough skin to withstand that criticism, as opposed to being on TV. People aren’t really reaching out to me in that same way, as if I posted a video online where the comments are the viewers, you know? So I think it’s really cool that like, creators are out there making character videos or sketches. Because they might have a much bigger following and sometimes be making more money than more established comedians who are doing the festival.

You say you don’t have tough skin but you made it out of Somalia.

Guled: I was too young. I didn’t know what was happening. I was whisked out of there. We were lucky that my parents were able to get us on the plane and get out of there quick. I was 4 when I left. So my skin was still soft, not yet at its peak toughness.

Franco: War-torn Somalia is much more mild, compared to the comments section of TikTok.

Survive a lot more and more.

Franco, you also mentioned one of the benefits of being an artist in Canada is that you can you can study the performing arts. You can study comedy at college or university. How lucky is it? How great is it? And I know Vance isn’t here. But the idea that you can take a comedy class from one of The Kids In The Hall in the first place, let alone have that that legendary sketch performer then take you under his wing.

Franco: From what I hear from Tim and Vance, they really enjoyed their experience at Humber. Actually, when Vance was there, I think Vance was doing a workshop and Bruce McCullough, one of The Kids In The Hall, was running the workshop and remembered Vance, and really felt like he had star potential and felt that connection. And so actually the reason why we didn’t really follow up with Caitlin, but the reason why she remembered us and reached out to us again, was because they had hired Vance to develop this other TV show with Bruce. And he was writing a couple days on that developing room. And then they asked Vance Hey, are you still doing anything with that troupe? We’d love to work with you again. And Vance let us know. And then from there, we showed them the web series we were working on, or maybe that jump-started us to start a web series. Bruce actually is really good at remembering people that like, if you leave an impression on Bruce, he has you in mind later. Like even our producer. Elise Bailey, she told me she met Bruce because she was like, I thinkan intern or she’s like working some show, Bruce was in a green room where she had to stock a fridge for, and then somehow he hired her for the show and she ended up being a producer. So I would say that to Humber School of comedy and that green room Elise had to stock a fridge at, those are great institutions that will help you get into the world of comedy.

The magic fridge. How important of an influence were Kids In The Hall for you guys?

Guled: I missed Kids in the Hall growing up. For me, I was watching a lot more Cartoon Network. So when Bruce, when we met him and he’s gonna be the one helping us create the show, I actually had to Google who they were, because I thought they were New Kids on the Block is who we were working with. I had to go look him up and I was like, oh, this is a different title. They are not the same thing. They sing, but it’s part of sketches. It’s not their whole deal.

Monty Python is not a snake.

Guled: I know! I found out much later. Yeah. This is the famous Monty Python. Wow. That’s impressive.

Fanco: Bruce’s two well-known sketches are “The Daves I Know” and “Step By Step.”

Guled: I think only after we started working with him, that I started watching Kids In The Hall sketches and then started seeing like, Oh, I like what they were able to accomplish when they were coming out. This is really funny. And watching a sketch from like, 25 plus years ago, you know, and it still holds up which is impressive because like comedy sometimes doesn’t hold up that long. You know, it can age like milk where you’re like, oh, this is bad. This is really bad. But no, this was still really really funny.

Do you feel equally that like, TallBoyz speaks to your generation?

Franco: I don’t know. I don’t even it’s hard to think about that. But I feel like the answer is no.

Guled: Let me talk to my generation first.

Well, Guled, you mentioned jokes not aging well, like being of its era. So when we’re watching the first few seasons of your show. Is it really kind of like speaking for what your generation thinks is funny?

Franco: The best comedy. Even with TV and stand-up specials, like the medium is supposed to create this illusion of presentness. That’s why like the screen has to bring the audience in so that like you’re reacting to everything. Hopefully the audience is having the same reactions in that present moment. Because the beauty of the live show. There’s an inherent danger of like, what if everything goes wrong, but they’re along for the ride. And to me like the most enjoyable comedy, and also outside of comedy. If we’re going to get super philosophical, it’s like, the funniest times the highest you’re laughing is when you’re really present, where you’re just like, comfortable with your best friend, or people that you’re closest with. And you’re just saying random stuff and it has nothing to do with anything. Any structure, or script or anything. It’s just ridiculous in that moment. And then I feel like stand-up, all performance tries to replicate that or has some sort of structure that tries to replicate that. And then the TV and film and all that stuff tries to replicate it through invisible editing and sound and world building. So yeah, I think in the same way, comedy is most effective when it’s like as present as it can be. And that’s why like a show like SNL is so popular because it’s talking about the thing that happened the week, The Daily Show’s talking about the conduct of the day of or two days before, like the YouTube vlogs are getting so popular because people are able to respond to something so quickly. And South Park is so popular because of talking about something that’s so relevant. So it’s kind of funny with comedy, it’s like it almost feels like if this show doesn’t age well, it was successful at the time, but not necessarily the case.

Fair enough. You’re named after, the name is inspired by a famous band, and one of the early sketches is about a boy band and how the boy band has defined roles. And you mentioned how Accent initially looked at Vance as a star. Do the four of you and I know there’s only two of you with me on the podcast, so speak freely. Do the four of you feel like you have defined roles within TallBoyz?

Guled: I think we all have wheelhouses where we’re experts, or I feel like very strong skill sets in. And when we were doing more live performances, I knew I could count on like, say for example, like if I’m in a scene with Tim I know I can count on him to be very physical and get in the moment come up with like some very silly line. And I count on Franco for a perfectly-timed joke. I know he can count on Vance for like just amazing facial expressions. If we need someone to look sad as possible, we turn to Vance, because people are really going to feel it, you know. I think we all have things that we’re really good at, and I try to play into my thing of just being silly and maybe liking things that are sometimes very dumb, you know, but I feel like we overlap in many places, but then strong in certain areas.

Franco: Especially in the realm of improv, you can always trust someone to come in and have your back. Especially like, as you jump from stand-up to improv, your brain kind of switches because with stand up, you can get in your head and sometimes that benefits you because you’re very analytical. But improv it’s about being present and reacting and performing. But really, it’s just making bold choices. And so yeah, the great thing with our troupe is that I found that a lot of moments where I’m like, oh, shoot, I’m thinking a lot today. And as I’m having this narrative in my head, the scene has already been saved by you know, Vance or Tim or Guled, by making a bold choice. But in terms of outside of improv, I think we naturally just have like, the four of us will all always like naturally have certain things, tendencies that we’re geared towards but, you know, with comedy, you’re just want to push yourself to break the norm. So that’s kind of like the structure of sketches, to find the first unusual thing and with comedy, it’s fun to try as much as possible, be unpredictable in a healthy way.

So a couple of weeks ago, I had the pleasure of interviewing Colin Mochrie. You guys have won an award named after Colin Mochrie. I know you just said Franco that you hope to be unpredictable. But what do you hope the future holds for TallBoyz?

Franco: I think we want to we want to tour together. I think we want to just keep writing and doing stuff because you know, it’s so surreal to have your dream come true. And in such an ideal situation where you have the support of your close friends, and everyone’s incredibly supportive. I think one of our big weaknesses is like, we always joke that we always champion each other and we forget to think about ourselves as individuals. But yeah, I mean, like everyone’s, like, incredibly supportive. So we just want to maintain this friendship and maintain our passion for it. Yeah, and I think like we were thinking about like going on tour soon, maybe a movie together. Then individually, like everyone individually outside of TallBoyz getting a Marvel four-picture deal. Just as an incentive for us to work out. That’s mainly it.

Guled: We’re pretty flexible, like we’ll do individually. We’ll play one superhero, th four of us.

Franco: We’re all actively avoiding the gym until we get our Marvel contract.

Is that even known in Canada now as the Kumail deal?

Guled: It’s the first I’m hearing about it, but I like it. I mean, we have Simu (Liu). Simu’s from Toronto, he got Shang-Chi (and the Legend of the Ten Rings). We’re trying to follow in his footsteps. He did it from from Canada, so we’re trying to do the same.

Well, you’re already well-established on TV and streaming in Canada through the CBC. And now Americans will get to see you through Fuse. Can people in other parts of the world access the TallBoyz canon?

Franco: Everyone’s invited as long as you have a VPN.

Guled: Yeah, that’s our official tagline.

Franco: Some countries want passports. We went VPNs.

Guled: We do have TallBoyzisashow on all platforms. You can find us on TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook. We do post a handful sketches on there.